No. 49.
Interview with J. S. Soper, June
17, 1893.
Q. Where were you born?
A. In Plymouth, England.
Q. How long have you lived here?
A. I came here in December, 1877.
Q. Are you a naturalized citizen?
A. Of this country?
Q. Yes.
A. I have taken the oath of allegiance to this Government.
Q. Are you a British subject?
A. I am an American.
Q. How long did you live in the United States?
[Page 970]A. I was 4 years of age when I went there. My father was a naturalized citizen.
Q. What year was that?
A. 1850. I was born in 1846.
Q. How long did you live in the United States?
A. Until 1877.
Q. That would be twenty-seven years?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you take the oath of allegiance here?
A. To this Government?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
Q. Are you an American citizen?
A. Yes, sir. I didn’t forswear my allegiance to the United States.
Q. You came here in what year?
A. In 1877.
Q. Were you in command of the military forces at the time of the dethronement of the Queen?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much artillery was turned over?
A. Twelve guns altogether.
Q. What were they?
A. Eight centimeter Krupp guns and four 7-centimeter guns.
Q. Were they German guns?
A. They were Austrian guns, the same pattern as Krupp guns.
Q. How many small arms?
A. I can not say, from memory. I have a record of it over there. I can not, say, from memory. I would have to look over the record, in order to be exact.
Q. Will you furnish me a memorandum soon?
A. Yes.
Q. And of the ammunition?
A. Yes.
Q. How much small arms did the committee of safety get up with a view to the movement against the Queen?
A. I should say we had in the neighborhood of—I think I have a record of that also.
Q. You will bring me that also?
A. Yes.
Q. What sort of arms were they?
A. Springfield and Winchester repeating rifles, called Winchester sporting rifles.
Q. Where did they come from?
A. From hardware stores here.
Q. Were they brought here for purposes of revolution or not?
A. I do not think so.
Q. Brought here for military purposes?
A. I do not think so. I can not say as to that. They were part of the stock in the store.
Q. What store?
A. Castle & Cooke. The largest number came from there—that is, 19 or 20 Winchester repeating rifles, model of 1886. There were quite a number of Springfield rifles from the times of 1887 and 1889.
Q. Where had they been kept?
A. In the hands of individuals.
Q. Where were you when the proclamation was read?
[Page 971]A. In the Government building.
Q. Can you state the number of troops you had there at the time the proclamation was read or within 20 minutes afterwards?
A. I can not say, exactly. I never kept any account. It was not very long before we had in the neighborhood of between 150 and 200 men. I can not say exactly how long after.
Q. What was the first detachment that came?
A. The first squad that came down was about 15 men. They came from the armory on Beretania street.
Q. How long after that before the second squad came?
A. In about 5 or 10 minutes.
Q. How many were there in that squad?
A. I should say about 15 or 20.
Q. Well, the next arrivals?
A. I didn’t see them. They kept coming right along at short intervals.
Q. How many were there when they finished reading the proclamation?
A. I should imagine there would be about perhaps 60 or 75.
Q. And how long was it after the proclamation was read before you had 150 men?
A. I can not say, exactly.
Q. Did you have that many in an hour?
A. The proclamation was read about half past two. I do not know how long it took to read it. I was not paying much attention to the time consumed in the reading, but in an hour afterwards, I should say, we had about 150 men.
Q. In an hour after it was finished?
A. I should think so. I have not paid any special attention to that since that time.
Q. Were you at Henry Waterhouse’s on Monday night before that?
A. Yes; I was there.
Q. Who else was there?
A. Henry Waterhouse, C. L. Carter, Mr. Cooper, Mr. Wundenberg, W. R. Castle. There were a number of others. I can not say positively now without looking over the list of names.
Q. What list of names?
A. I should have to look over the names of the present Government and supporters of the Government in order to pick out the entire number.
Q. About how many persons were there?
A. Probably twelve or fifteen.
Q. What was the object of the meeting?
A. To ascertain what advice or assistance to give to the committee of safety—the committee of thirteen.
Q. What advice to give to the committee of safety?
A. That is what I understood it to be. That is, to work in conjunction with them.
Q. Many of them were members of the committee?
A. Yes; and some of those were people called in by the committee to counsel with them.
Q. Were you offered that night command of the military forces—solicited to take it?
A. Yes.
Q. How was that done—by a vote of the meeting?
A. I went outside for some purpose or other—I think to get a drink [Page 972] out on the veranda. When I went back the proposition was made to me. What they did while I was out I do not know. I did not go out at the request of any one.
Q. What response did you make?
A. I said I was not a trained military man, and was rather averse to accepting any position I was not especially trained for, under the circumstances, and that I would give them an answer on the following day; that is, in the morning.
Q. You did not give them any answer that night?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see Mr. Stevens that night?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did anybody in the meeting go to see him, so far as you heard?
A. Not so far as I know of.
Q. Was anything said about his agreeing to recognize the Provisional Government in the event of their getting possession of the Government building and reading their proclamation—orny hea er building?
A. You mean at this meeting?
Q. Yes?
A. I can not say positively as to whether I understood it at that meeting, or the following morning. I understood he would recognize a de facto government.
Q. What did they say was a de facto government?
A. A Government that was in possession of the Government building, archives, treasury, etc.
Q. The treasury, archives, etc., were in the Government building?
A. Yes.
Q. The understanding was then that if the Provisional Government got possession of the Government building and read the proclamation that then he would recognize it as a de facto government?
A. I believe that was the understanding.
Q Yon do not remember whether it was that night or the next day?
A. It is possible that it was at that meeting that evening, but I do not know.
Q. Are you inclined to believe it was that evening?
A. I won’t say positively as to that.
Q. It was either that evening or the next morning?
A. Yes.
Q. Until you heard that did you agree to accept the military command?
A. No.
Q. It was after that that you agreed to accept that command?
A. I feel pretty sure it was. The particular point which decided me was the fact of Judge Dole agreeing to accept the position as the head of the Government.
I have read the foregoing and it is a correct report of my interview with Mr. Blount.
Mr. Soper was sent for several times with a view of having him read the foregoing, but up to this time we have been unable to get him here.—E. M.